the UK allow you to crry non locking knifes.

But you dont need to carry one all the time ...

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I'm sorry, but really?... I mean really?

The UK has the highest crime rate out of all European nations, and some of their violent crime rates are higher than those of US crime rates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... urope.html

"the "victimisation risk" - showing the risk of suffering a crime - in England and Wales is higher for overall crime than anywhere else in Europe, and higher than in America. The same is true of falling victim to "contact" - violent - crime.

England and Wales also had markedly fewer police officers per head of population than France, Germany and Italy, according to the study."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 284384.ece

"THE British are more likely to be the victims of serious crime than the citizens of any of the industrialised nations. We face the highest level of assaults in Europe. There is more risk of being robbed on our streets than in the United States."

Sure that's a bit out of date, but as far as I know, it hasn't changed much, if at all.



http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... a33e2ff469

Enjoy the plethora of links.

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"Civil disobedience is still disobience."

Gun crime isn't exactly that high compared to what you're portraying it as.

The difference being in the UK, they outlaw guns and knives and what happened is
people get auto 9mm-HK's from Germany, or get knives anyway.
Then they know any law-abiding citizen won't have anything
and nor will the cops be able to stop them.

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This topic is about gun and knife crime which IS a lot lower in the UK that the USA, which I believe matt's post was about.

The gun homicide rates in America are much higher than that in the uk, you only have to look at all the school shootings to see what a problem they have.

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Runevillage member #46

school shootings are usually done with illegal firearms that are supposed to be unobtainable in the US

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So do legal firearms not kill people ?

What makes the illegal ? Sorry im not sure on US gun laws - i thought you could just buy like anyone you wanted over there.

Last time i went there was a whole gun cabinet at Wallmart

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My point was that most of the time the crime is done by a person that doesn't own a legal firearm or is in possession of a firearm illegally.

US gun laws vary by state. It's generally illegal to carry a firearm at all. Some states allow concealed carry (Which I don't agree with. If someone is carrying a gun I'd rather know it's on them.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_i ... _(by_state)

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I may have already replied to this, since this is a fairly old thread, however I would just like to say, there is harm in that. Think of it this way, if I were being bullied by someone and I decided to bring a knife in to school to defend myself, at best, if he attacks me, I stab him, and I'm now a murderer. At worst, he gets the knife off me and now he has a weapon of his own, so I am in much more danger than before.

I think if anyone should be allowed weapons it should only be trained officials such as military personnel and police officers. Look at it this way, if you decided to rob me at gun point, and I pulled out my own gun, would you drop yours and run? No, you'd most likely shoot me thinking that if you didn't I'd shoot you. If however I didn't have a gun, yes, I may be forced to give up possessions, but I walk away with my life, something far more valuable than phones, ipods, money, or whatever it is a thief might be after.

I'm not saying everyone who carries a weapon is a bad person, but carrying a weapon *is* a bad idea unless you have been trained with it and you are in an environment where you *need* that weapon, for example, as a soldier, or as a police officer working in a dangerous area.



Yes, it is true that people still have access to guns and knives, however guns are very rare here. Most guns around are actually converted WW2 firearms that are just as dangerous to the user as they are to whoever he/she decides to point it at. If guns were readily available as they are in the US then we should see much more gun crime here. Knife crime however is another issue, while if you're carrying a knife you will be arrested, 9/10 times you won't be charged and your weapon will just be confiscated, kitchen knives are just as good as any fancy combat knife in most cases. I don't personally know how we can solve this, but I do think the police taking a harsher stance on people found carrying weapons would at least be an improvement.

-Matt

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There's actually one town in the US that it's illegal NOT to own a gun. The idea is that people are less likely to try something if they know the people around them are armed as well.

Also, if you're bringing a weapon somewhere for "self-defense" it can't really be considered self-defense. If you're being messed with at school you talk to someone. You don't decide you're going to stab or shoot them the next time they do it. That's you taking a pre-emptive strike.



If you've seen their face they're going to shoot you. The only reason they haven't already is because they're nervous or they're covering their face. They teach you not to just pull out your gun if someone is close to you, as well. You pull it out at a distance. Self-defense with a firearm is usually home security or work related.

Bar tenders are allowed to carry them for example.

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Depends on your definition of "illegal". Certainly it is "illegal" for a teen to carry a license handgun that their father owns (or grandparent/uncle/etc like what normally happens). Normally comes out these guns are "stolen" from the families house. It's not like they are grabbing full auto AK-47's or M16's to do these shootings, but hunting rifles and handguns I can go a mile down the road and buy.

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I remember there at least being a shooting in Detroit that involved an AK-47.

I could go buy a P90 at a nearby store actually... expensive as hell though.

Parents are SUPPOSED to keep these things locked up as well or they lose their FOID card. no real way to know for sure that they're being locked up and the owner is the only one with access though.

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School shootings are "Spree" shootings. We have like 4-6 a year and maybe 50 die per year from them.

Even though the U.S. might have more gun related crimes, the UK actually has a higher violent crime rate. So clearly all you have to do is look at all the links I provided and the multitude of studies backing up what I said to see what a problem the UK has. I only brought it up in the first place because he was coming across as snide and implying that US citizens are "senseless". When really I could have turned around and said the exact same thing to him with statistics backing it all up.

It doesn't really matter how a person dies, dead is dead, and in the UK you're more likely to be a victim of a violent crime.

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"Civil disobedience is still disobience."

dunno about you, But i would prefer to take a guys fist rather than a bullet anyday.

Violent crime =/= Death

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Getting punched in the head by the right guy in the wrong spot will kill you... Just so ya know...

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/ ... 19226.html

I wasn't implying that violent crime = dead.

My whole post was in response to him calling US citizens "Senseless" because we kill each other with guns... and then I obviously offended all the brits because they're having a severe case of denial even though I obviously posted proof and links and an entire google page of results backing up what I said... But that's fine. I said my piece and made my point, whether you choose to acknowledge it or simply pick apart what I'm saying by implying I implied something, when I clearly didn't is up to you. I frankly couldn't care less, it's your time you're wasting. Not mine.

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"Civil disobedience is still disobience."

I'm not sure how UK gun laws work, but i know in the US in areas where law abiding citizens (excuding gangsters and such) have guns deadly crimes tend to be reduced due to the criminals fearing death at the hands of their victims.

There are many cases of citizens stopping robberies rapes and murders due to being armed.

That's my opinion.

Also, yes, your police should carry guns and tasers as the American police do, it really helps.

Just to interject a bit of my own knowledge as far as gun laws in the United States are concerned:
Automatic weapons are readily banned basically everywhere. Many companies make civilian, single-shot variants of their guns specifically for sale in the US and other places where the military, full-auto versions are illegal. I'm not sure how difficult it is to mod a weapon into an automatic from a single-shot; I presume it's simple enough if you know what you're doing. However, any time you see a P90, M16, AK-47, etc. for sale openly in the US, it's not a full-auto assault rifle.

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Tahu 1000 - Former Member

If all the police carry guys then your gona have criminals carying guns to counter them.

if you increase the punishment for carrying knives to the same as carrying guns or carrying any weapon gives you a life sentence then people will just carry guns.

Plus it aint that bad in New york city than there are about 400-600 murders a year and in the whole of the uk there is 600-800.

Also were like 46th on the list, usa is about 24th,
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

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That list is actually based on heavily outdated data; recent data puts the USA #89 at a rate of 5.0 intentional homicides per 100000 people, and the UK at #152 with 1.28. I should also point out that's roughly a 38% decrease in the UK from 2.06 in 2002.

So what exactly is the "problem" being discussed here? Media paranoia in the UK, perhaps?

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Not if only the police can get the guns.



Statistics to back this up please? I'm pretty sure people willing to use a weapon to commit a crime don't care what sentence they'll get if they're caught, rather which is the more effective weapon to use.

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"What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."- The last words of General John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in the American civil war

This discussion has become ridiculous, I live in Texas and almost everyone has a gun. In my house, we feel much safer because if someone breaks in... They will either die or be held at gunpoint for the police.

Criminals no this... that's why I have lived in three different conservative pro gun areas and never had a gunshot except for sport, and never had a homicide near by.

They tend to be in liberal areas where the law abiding citizens are not armed. Simple as that.

I have the right to bear arms within reason, period. For sporting and self defence.