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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: February 17th, 2012, 12:49 pm 
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Proletariat wrote:


Socrates, Descartes, and Nietzsche were all subjects I covered completely in philosophy 101. Still waiting for you to go deeper. Or was this the depth you were talking about originally?


Intro to Philosophy (PH 101) is the extent of my formal training. Most major philosophers are glossed over in this introductory class, that's not to say we explored all of the intricacies of each in the class. I do quite a bit of independent reading, however.

Strangely enough, we didn't read Nietzsche in PH 101. I was required to read him for a 300 level literature course because of his influence on the Modernist movement. Of course, I knew of him previously.

Anyway, I made my points and thought that they were sufficient. You can't know the meaning of life, nor can you know true reality.

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: February 17th, 2012, 1:05 pm 
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Yes you can. It's biological. The meaning of life is different for every single person, but when it all boils down to it....ideas and action are it.

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: February 21st, 2012, 10:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: March 11th, 2012, 8:51 am 
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First of all pardon me for being religious, just trying to share my perspective on the meaning of life and what it should be. As a Christian this is what I believe.

Quote:
Why am I here?

Have you ever wondered what life is all about? Why were we born into the world in the first place? Is there more to life than this? Can we be truly happy in our life here on earth? The key to understanding the meaning of life and finding true happiness lies in knowing your purpose in life.


The Bible says there is a God who loves you.

This is a good God, who created you to have a relationship with Him and to enjoy His blessings.

Jeremiah 31:3
"The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: 'Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; ..."

John 10:10
"[Jesus says] I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly (to have life in all its fullness)."

http://www.chc.org.sg/_eng/church/church_purpose.php

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: June 28th, 2012, 10:23 pm 

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The meaning of life is that this life is a test.

And the answer to the test is to literally love thy neighbour as you love yourself.


Look at all of the problems ever on the earth, they were bc of money and greed. AKA POWER OVER OTHERS.

Look at our fractional reserve compound interest based economy, and how it is based on the presumption of infinite growth; then think about the finite supply of energy we have on this planet. The 2 will collide to destroy life as we know it, perhaps even be a root in the eventual fall of an unevolved species of man that thinks for himself.

This is all cause bc of money, the representation of power over others in our human culture.

That is what the weak vain man desires. And that is what makes the weak man fail.
Only the strong and virtuous will live for others.

That is the test. And almost everyone fails.


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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2012, 4:48 pm 
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All this talk of meaning, and answers, and reality.

I like to see "reality" as the Principia Discordia puts it.

"With our concept making apparatus called "mind" we look at reality through the ideas-about-reality which our cultures give us. The ideas-about-reality are mistakenly labeled "reality" and unenlightened people are forever perplexed by the fact that other people, especially other cultures, see "reality" differently. It is only the ideas-about-reality which differ. Real (capital-T True) reality is a level deeper than is the level of concept.
We look through the world through windows on which have been drawn grids (concepts). Different philosophies use different grids. A culture is a group of people with rather similar grids. Through a window we view chaos, and relate it to the points on our grid, and thereby understand it."- Principia Discordia Pages 56-57

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: September 18th, 2012, 7:41 am 
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The way I look at reality is on a what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Sure our senses can deceive, but what's the purpose in trying to live in a 'higher reality' than our bodies are equipped for? Even if what we're experiencing 'isn't real', why does it matter? What we can interact with is all that's really important, and that's the reality I choose to accept, unless someone finally makes an ascent from the cave...

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: September 18th, 2012, 10:19 pm 
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Topsummoner wrote:
The way I look at reality is on a what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Sure our senses can deceive, but what's the purpose in trying to live in a 'higher reality' than our bodies are equipped for? Even if what we're experiencing 'isn't real', why does it matter? What we can interact with is all that's really important, and that's the reality I choose to accept, unless someone finally makes an ascent from the cave...


This is what religion and philosophy have been trying to get at for millenniums. Why does it matter? A valid question, but a lazy one. Some would argue that if you aren't trying to answer it yourself, you aren't living or thinking, and you'll never be wise. As if that's worth its weight these days. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: January 10th, 2013, 12:13 pm 
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Haven't read everything, but according to a philosophy:knowledge course i had, there is no true meaning of life. Everything would be absurd, including self harm for not believing that there is a true meaning of life, but it's okay to continue going on as if there is meaning, even though caring for others and having others caring for you is like taking in each other's wash.


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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: January 10th, 2013, 5:28 pm 
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purpieman wrote:
Haven't read everything, but according to a philosophy:knowledge course i had, there is no true meaning of life. Everything would be absurd, including self harm for not believing that there is a true meaning of life, but it's okay to continue going on as if there is meaning, even though caring for others and having others caring for you is like taking in each other's wash.


Sounds like a depressing world. Kind of glad I'm not a philosopher.

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: January 30th, 2013, 2:30 pm 
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purpieman wrote:
Haven't read everything, but according to a philosophy:knowledge course i had, there is no true meaning of life. Everything would be absurd, including self harm for not believing that there is a true meaning of life, but it's okay to continue going on as if there is meaning, even though caring for others and having others caring for you is like taking in each other's wash.


Sounds like Camus to me. Or maybe Heidegger.... If it's Heidegger... Yuck.

Kikori wrote:
Sounds like a depressing world. Kind of glad I'm not a philosopher.


Well... Not really. I'd say Nietzsche had quite the depressing philosophy but even had bright moments. Camus on the other hand argued that (and I'm being overly simplistic) that humans constantly try to derive meaning to existence (a meaning of life.) But we can't possibly know there is such a thing. There might be a meaning of life, but humans will never capture it. Humans have three outlets to this problem (the Absurd): A) They can kill themselves. B) They can commit philosophical suicide. C) They can live in spite of the absurdity of life.

A) That was never an option for Camus. Suicide is a confession that "life is too much for you." To really get into this you'd have to read The Myth of Sisyphus. I really recommend it. It's only ~120 pages and the last chapter opines on the tragic Greek hero of Sisyphus. Who is doomed forever to an absurd punishment of pushing a boulder up a hill forever.

B) Philosophical Suicide for Camus is either a faith in God or some other abstract concept. He seen faith as a means to avoid the reality of the Absurd rather then face it. People "killed" their own mind by not facing the absurdity of existence. God was a symbol of a false meaning to life.

C) Without getting too wordy this was what Camus "spoke to." That existence only has meaning when we assign it such. There is no real objective "truth." He felt that even in the face of Nihilism you can still live and create. Take a gander here: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... 2871#comic

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: January 30th, 2013, 7:17 pm 
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That's intriguing, the different views. There are a lot of philosophy classes at my college, but i'm not going to them because i don't need more credits, but books sounds interesting. I might check some out.
The book i remember using was Nagel. He went thorough several viewpoints, including the belief that only you exist, while others may just be robots. He says he doesn't believe that because he wouldn't write the book if he did.


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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: May 27th, 2013, 10:40 am 
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First off, i'll just say that i'm not a religious man. I'm quite firmly an atheist, and those are my views. I have never studied philosophy, or psychology, or anything else like that, i've only been taught chemistry, physics, maths, biology and geology. Also, the following is my own personal views and opinions, and you know what they say about opinions: "they're like arseholes, everyone has one". Finally, apologies for the essay, this is something i've been thinking about and contemplating since my dads midlife crisis, and his struggle to understand the world. This interpretation is based on my own knowledge, and also my (often vain) attempts to understand what my old man is blabbering on about.

Philosophers are great at one thing, describing perception and the mere reality of existence. philosophy tries to explain who we are and our own individual purpose in life. Now that's great for understanding what makes us human, but it's completely the wrong way to go about answering the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

You see, in order to understand the universe, you have to understand what makes it tick. This is easily described in a hierarchy of science complexity:
  • Mathematics is the most basic science, and can be used to describe almost every other science.
  • Physics is next, describing the make-up of matter, an explaining why matter exists. Mostly explained using maths.
  • Chemistry describes how matter is made into more complex molecules, mostly using physics.
  • Geology describes the laying down of matter and molecules to form planets and asteroids. Described using both chemistry and physics
  • Biology describes how living matter is created. Mostly described in chemistry or physics.
Now that is probably a very basic summary of all the "real" sciences, and IMHO geology and biology fight for joint 4th place in the order of complexity.

Why is this important? Well, chemistry has a concept of entropy, where simple, "chaotic" things like hydrogen and oxygen want to combine to form a more complex form such as water. These reactions can either be exothermic, where more chaotic matter (such as hydrogen and oxygen) form a more complex molecule (like water) and release energy (in that pop when you set the hydrogen on fire) or endothermic, where energy is absorbed from the environment.

So what does entropy have to do with the meaning of the universe, and that hierarchy of science you made? Simple. We can expand the idea of entropy to a simple rule: "chaotic things want to become as complex as possible". You, this planet, and the entirety of the universe is made up of atoms wanting to become more ordered. The silicon oxides making up the sand on beaches started out as hydrogen in a star trying to become more complex. The carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and phosphates making up the tissues in your body all started out as simpler molecules bubbling around in a primeval soup millions of years ago, and that soup evolved to become living matter. That living matter became more complex as time wore on, diverging from unicellular life like microbes into more complex multicellular life. And that multicellular life evolved into plants, animals, fungi and more. And those plants, animals and fungi evolved into more complex species: Animals that walk; ones that swim; algae that photosynthesise; plants that photosynthesise; plants that eat the walking animals. This list could go on.

But millions of years later, as the universe tries to make itself more ordered, we evolve. the human race evolved for one reason only, to make our chaotic world more ordered.

Here's a simple experiment. Look at the following images of pencils. Ignoring the quality of the picture or the size, which of the the following looks best?
Hidden: 
Image

Image

Hidden: 
The bottom one, right? That's because the human brain delights in patterns. That's why we're fascinated with fractals, patterns, and order in general. And that's why we're the near-perfect species to order our own world...


How about another? What is the first thing you notice about the picture below?
Hidden: 
Image

Hidden: 
The second pencil from the top? Because it's sharpened? It doesn't fit with the rest of the pencils, it sticks out, and the brain notices this discrepancy almost immediately.

Humans have changed the face of our planet over the last 5000 years, and we're not likely to stop in a hurry. We've turned sprawling grasslands into uniform concrete jungles, full of perfect right angles and concrete and steel, all arranged in grid patterns as much as possible, unless confined to the geography. This is what we do, we turn less ordered matter, like bauxite and sand, into more ordered products, such as laptops and cars and skyscrapers, that we can use to better our lives.

Fundamentally, (and TL;DR) the meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything isn't forty-two, it is that everything wants to become more ordered. Humans evolved out of less complex species to order the planet, and that is the meaning of life. Humanity is not the culmination of the universes ability, just a component in what it fundamentally wants to do: make itself more ordered.

And to finish things off, i'll take Defeats quote from the OP
defeat wrote:
It's to have ideas and make them reality.

Doesn't that involve taking simple raw materials and turning them into more complex forms? Clay into a pot? Pen and Paper into a novel? Wood and strings into violins? A group of violins and other musical instruments into a symphony? It's all just simple(r) things becoming more ordered. We're just a mechanism that allows the universe to do that.

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"But you will never succeed!" they cry out.
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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: December 1st, 2013, 2:37 am 
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The meaning of life is reproduction, advancement of the human culture, and to ensure our survival to me. Quite simple ...


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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: December 1st, 2013, 8:18 am 
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lovefoto317 wrote:
The meaning of life is reproduction, advancement of the human culture, and to ensure our survival to me. Quite simple ...

TBH the meaning of life is reproduction and ensuring the survival of your own species. Nothing else. The rest of it came through intelligence

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There is a village, which is hidden in the shadow of a mountain.
Everybody is suffering from a lack of light.
One day, the eldest of this village leaves for the mountain with a teaspoon in his hands.
The others ask him what he intends to do.
He replies that he is going to move the mountain.
"But you will never succeed!" they cry out.
"No, i will never succeed, but somebody has to start."

~~~The Wising Up Song - Misty's Big Adventure

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Kikori wrote:
Runevillage the forum is pretty well much done. Runevillage the group will eventually die, but as long as we're still friends with each other in the end, it's still a pretty big thought in our heads. Runevillage the family is forever, no matter where we settle down. If absolutely nothing else ever comes of Runevillage in the future, that alone is a pretty damn awesome thought.


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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2013, 10:17 pm 
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The123king wrote:
First off, i'll just say that i'm not a religious man. I'm quite firmly an atheist, and those are my views. I have never studied philosophy, or psychology, or anything else like that, i've only been taught chemistry, physics, maths, biology and geology. Also, the following is my own personal views and opinions, and you know what they say about opinions: "they're like arseholes, everyone has one". Finally, apologies for the essay, this is something i've been thinking about and contemplating since my dads midlife crisis, and his struggle to understand the world. This interpretation is based on my own knowledge, and also my (often vain) attempts to understand what my old man is blabbering on about.

Philosophers are great at one thing, describing perception and the mere reality of existence. philosophy tries to explain who we are and our own individual purpose in life. Now that's great for understanding what makes us human, but it's completely the wrong way to go about answering the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

You see, in order to understand the universe, you have to understand what makes it tick. This is easily described in a hierarchy of science complexity:
  • Mathematics is the most basic science, and can be used to describe almost every other science.
  • Physics is next, describing the make-up of matter, an explaining why matter exists. Mostly explained using maths.
  • Chemistry describes how matter is made into more complex molecules, mostly using physics.
  • Geology describes the laying down of matter and molecules to form planets and asteroids. Described using both chemistry and physics
  • Biology describes how living matter is created. Mostly described in chemistry or physics.
Now that is probably a very basic summary of all the "real" sciences, and IMHO geology and biology fight for joint 4th place in the order of complexity.

Why is this important? Well, chemistry has a concept of entropy, where simple, "chaotic" things like hydrogen and oxygen want to combine to form a more complex form such as water. These reactions can either be exothermic, where more chaotic matter (such as hydrogen and oxygen) form a more complex molecule (like water) and release energy (in that pop when you set the hydrogen on fire) or endothermic, where energy is absorbed from the environment.

So what does entropy have to do with the meaning of the universe, and that hierarchy of science you made? Simple. We can expand the idea of entropy to a simple rule: "chaotic things want to become as complex as possible". You, this planet, and the entirety of the universe is made up of atoms wanting to become more ordered. The silicon oxides making up the sand on beaches started out as hydrogen in a star trying to become more complex. The carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and phosphates making up the tissues in your body all started out as simpler molecules bubbling around in a primeval soup millions of years ago, and that soup evolved to become living matter. That living matter became more complex as time wore on, diverging from unicellular life like microbes into more complex multicellular life. And that multicellular life evolved into plants, animals, fungi and more. And those plants, animals and fungi evolved into more complex species: Animals that walk; ones that swim; algae that photosynthesise; plants that photosynthesise; plants that eat the walking animals. This list could go on.

But millions of years later, as the universe tries to make itself more ordered, we evolve. the human race evolved for one reason only, to make our chaotic world more ordered.

Here's a simple experiment. Look at the following images of pencils. Ignoring the quality of the picture or the size, which of the the following looks best?
Hidden: 
Image

Image

Hidden: 
The bottom one, right? That's because the human brain delights in patterns. That's why we're fascinated with fractals, patterns, and order in general. And that's why we're the near-perfect species to order our own world...


How about another? What is the first thing you notice about the picture below?
Hidden: 
Image

Hidden: 
The second pencil from the top? Because it's sharpened? It doesn't fit with the rest of the pencils, it sticks out, and the brain notices this discrepancy almost immediately.

Humans have changed the face of our planet over the last 5000 years, and we're not likely to stop in a hurry. We've turned sprawling grasslands into uniform concrete jungles, full of perfect right angles and concrete and steel, all arranged in grid patterns as much as possible, unless confined to the geography. This is what we do, we turn less ordered matter, like bauxite and sand, into more ordered products, such as laptops and cars and skyscrapers, that we can use to better our lives.

Fundamentally, (and TL;DR) the meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything isn't forty-two, it is that everything wants to become more ordered. Humans evolved out of less complex species to order the planet, and that is the meaning of life. Humanity is not the culmination of the universes ability, just a component in what it fundamentally wants to do: make itself more ordered.

And to finish things off, i'll take Defeats quote from the OP
defeat wrote:
It's to have ideas and make them reality.

Doesn't that involve taking simple raw materials and turning them into more complex forms? Clay into a pot? Pen and Paper into a novel? Wood and strings into violins? A group of violins and other musical instruments into a symphony? It's all just simple(r) things becoming more ordered. We're just a mechanism that allows the universe to do that.

All valid points. However, there are ideas that come from and are realized through ways that aren't tangable. The arts. Writing. Etc. Sure, you need tools such as instruments and pen/paper to make those iideas tangable, but sometimes you just need your voice to tell a story or sing a song. Or tell a joke. Or your body to dance a dance.

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: December 4th, 2013, 1:44 pm 
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defeat wrote:
All valid points. However, there are ideas that come from and are realized through ways that aren't tangable. The arts. Writing. Etc. Sure, you need tools such as instruments and pen/paper to make those iideas tangable, but sometimes you just need your voice to tell a story or sing a song. Or tell a joke. Or your body to dance a dance.


True, but the arts are expressing ideas and others getting enjoyment from them. Music is probably the weirdest concept. Why? Rhythms and songs are a very integral piece of every culture. It's a very "human" thing. I suppose it comes down to the primitive need of social contact, and a good song and dance supplies entertainment, social contact and a good way to hone your reflexes and perception. Painting, literature, theatre, etc is all just about conveying ideas and telling entertaining stories, all evolving from the need to tell your tale and ensure the survival of the next generation.

Evolution has a lot to answer for.

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There is a village, which is hidden in the shadow of a mountain.
Everybody is suffering from a lack of light.
One day, the eldest of this village leaves for the mountain with a teaspoon in his hands.
The others ask him what he intends to do.
He replies that he is going to move the mountain.
"But you will never succeed!" they cry out.
"No, i will never succeed, but somebody has to start."

~~~The Wising Up Song - Misty's Big Adventure

Hidden: 
Kikori wrote:
Runevillage the forum is pretty well much done. Runevillage the group will eventually die, but as long as we're still friends with each other in the end, it's still a pretty big thought in our heads. Runevillage the family is forever, no matter where we settle down. If absolutely nothing else ever comes of Runevillage in the future, that alone is a pretty damn awesome thought.


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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: November 19th, 2019, 4:58 pm 
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Arnaud wrote:
Why assume there is a meaning to life?


Oh my god, I love that I can still see my random ramblings from 7 years ago.

Hello past me - you were just 1 year out of a prolonged period of depression, had no career experience, no relationship experience, no idea what your future would hold and very few responsibilities... yet, you were still onto something here. There seems to be no concrete meaning to life.

But hey, carpe diem.

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 Post subject: Re: I've figured out the meaning of life.
PostPosted: January 24th, 2020, 3:09 pm 
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Arnaud wrote:
Arnaud wrote:
Why assume there is a meaning to life?


Oh my god, I love that I can still see my random ramblings from 7 years ago.

Hello past me - you were just 1 year out of a prolonged period of depression, had no career experience, no relationship experience, no idea what your future would hold and very few responsibilities... yet, you were still onto something here. There seems to be no concrete meaning to life.

But hey, carpe diem.


You want to know the real meaning of life?

Honestly?

You want to take this whole thread into some sort of deep philosophical discussion into life, the universe and everything*?

I'll tell you the meaning of life.

I don't want to say it.

I bet you'd be disappointed.

Ok, here it comes...

Hidden: 
There isn't one.

We don't get a choice of coming into this world. We get no choice about where we're born, to what parents we're born to, or, heck, what species we'll be. We're just a sack of meat and bones trying to survive and maybe spreading their genes to the next generation.

What we do, what we achieve, and what we become in this short window between birth and death is something we need to cherish. For the good times and the bad, life will always be an entertaining journey.


Make of it what you will, but that's my opinion anyway.

*spoiler alert, 42

__________________
There is a village, which is hidden in the shadow of a mountain.
Everybody is suffering from a lack of light.
One day, the eldest of this village leaves for the mountain with a teaspoon in his hands.
The others ask him what he intends to do.
He replies that he is going to move the mountain.
"But you will never succeed!" they cry out.
"No, i will never succeed, but somebody has to start."

~~~The Wising Up Song - Misty's Big Adventure

Hidden: 
Kikori wrote:
Runevillage the forum is pretty well much done. Runevillage the group will eventually die, but as long as we're still friends with each other in the end, it's still a pretty big thought in our heads. Runevillage the family is forever, no matter where we settle down. If absolutely nothing else ever comes of Runevillage in the future, that alone is a pretty damn awesome thought.


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