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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Day 4
PostPosted: December 16th, 2016, 5:54 pm 
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Stats:

Number of different items: 20
Number of different items possessed: 14

Items used or consumed: 10
Items traded: 6
Items manufactured: 4

Items wasted: 10
Actions missed: 2

Most popular item: Snowball


Thoughts:

-The game was supposed to be balanced around the items (obviously). I'm happy with the amount of activity generated by the items, but the game definitely could have gone differently if 0 items were wasted. In particular, the Rogues wasted two Nutcrackers, while Kikori could have evaded death if he used his Sleigh. Of course, this would mean Spirographed wouldn't be caught committing the kill, and then maybe his JoaT claim would have held weight. Getting caught by the Watcher on N1 is always one of those dumb-luck things.
-The Gifts were supposed to have more of an impact than they did. I was hoping the Mafia would be able to acquire some of them and/or disrupt the rest of them.
-Top's role was intentionally designed to be negative utility, so that people wouldn't be town-confirmed simply by the items and abilities they possessed. The White Elephant was supposed to cause a lot more chaos than it did, as it was only swapped once. The Caroling ability actually produces counterfeit items, which could throw off other investigations.
-Aragorn's role was inserted because 3 Rogues would have been too strong, but 2 Rogues couldn't take on the Workshop themselves without being swingy-overpowered. Something Aragorn could have tried claiming is that he wins with the Town only if he survives through Day 4, and then devour for the win at Night 4.
-I thought the Rogues could still win if Frank had pushed for Aragorn's lynch on Day 3. Technically it wouldn't be a mislynch, but Aragorn didn't have a kill until the following Night.
-It was depressing having to modkill Rory since he paraphrased the report perfectly before quoting it. Letting him live would have confirmed his alignment and Spiro's (who was most likely already getting lynched).

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I concur. We must lynch him now for the sake of the metagame, we MUST teach people that they can't go around claiming "anniversary" and expect leniency. Topsummoner.


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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 16th, 2016, 6:20 pm 
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Lander wrote:
We will speak of my change of heart and vote for frank after the game is over. It has no bearing on what's going on right now.

I'm going to be interested in hearing this.

I had a good feeling that Pyro had roleblocked Top... I'm not sure why Top didn't advance that as a possibility. I don't think this was your best game Top, but you guys pulled through so congrats all the same.

Paidea wrote:
-I thought the Rogues could still win if Frank had pushed for Aragorn's lynch on Day 3. Technically it wouldn't be a mislynch, but Aragorn didn't have a kill until the following Night.

Well obviously I messed up somewhere. I was in pretty decent position though I didn't really know the extent of Aragorn's role which could (and would) have been problematic. Though, I got the feeling that Top was, at least until Day 4, ready to keep Aragorn alive which meant he just really wasn't a good target to pursue. Of all the candidates I thought Top was the best one to get the other two to follow on... Oh well.

General thoughts on the game: I was unsure of the whole items thing going into the game but the game really worked. The items felt reasonable and the action was fun. The game was very intricately designed, how long did it take you to create/balance the game Paidea?

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 16th, 2016, 10:07 pm 
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Frank 4.0.1 wrote:
I don't think this was your best game Top


I wholeheartedly agree, I really shat the bed (so to speak) on Day 3, I'll be the first to admit.

As I said before in the game, I'd like to apologize for my conduct on Day 3 where I started to panic post and lash out. It was poor form and unfair of me.

I'd really like to hear what made Lander change his mind though.

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 16th, 2016, 10:12 pm 
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The game was really interesting, it's a shame Spiro being watched happened so early, and Rory had to be modkilled, as both of these resulted in the game being cut rather short.

That being said, you ought to be more careful going in on a target like Kikori at night, haha.

As I mentioned in the Hosting List topic, I've got an 'Election Mafia' variant in the works I'd like to host, but I figure we probably shouldn't start another game until January, what with Christmas coming up. If everyone's fine with me going again, then I'll post the signup a few days into the new year.

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 16th, 2016, 10:26 pm 
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Yeah. Getting caught so early was pretty lame, but I had fun with this game regardless. Hats off to my teammate, Frank. I thought he played very well.

Did my item sabotage make the Lander-Top trade misfire, Paid?

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 16th, 2016, 10:31 pm 
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@Spiro

It looks like Frank's ability 'Raid' prevented me and Lander from trading with eachother.

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 17th, 2016, 4:00 am 
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I was actually the Fool, a variant of the Jester whose only goal is to get modkilled. :shifty:

Well done guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 17th, 2016, 10:21 am 
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My entire strategy hinged upon Frank flipping town. I'd hoped as a result one of Top and Lander were mafia and would target me that night. That would either fail due to roleblock or fail due to my one shot bulletproof. Then i'd be able to win from there due to dependency on my vote for a lynch. Then I have my nightkill too...

In other words, god damnit frank I thought you were innocent!

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 17th, 2016, 4:04 pm 
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I borrowed the additional vote mechanic from a league of legends variant I played. If RPG would have won, the vote would have been to gain experience, with different levels of crafting and different rarities for items. Once Collectible won out, I knew I had to design Gifts and try to balance around trade.

Designing all the items took about an hour, designing the flavor of the roles took about an hour. It took another hour to balance the abilities with the starting items, and one last hour to type all the role PMs. Setting up the mod sheet also took an hour.

So about 6 hours in total.

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Bloodypurex wrote:
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Paidea wrote:
And you're not dead yet? Topsummoner

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His logic is flawless. Topsummoner

I concur. We must lynch him now for the sake of the metagame, we MUST teach people that they can't go around claiming "anniversary" and expect leniency. Topsummoner.


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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 17th, 2016, 4:26 pm 
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It was a really interesting variant (though yours usually are, see Insanity and Quantum), thanks for putting in the work and hosting Paid!

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 17th, 2016, 8:15 pm 
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Frank 4.0.1 wrote:
Lander wrote:
We will speak of my change of heart and vote for frank after the game is over. It has no bearing on what's going on right now.

I'm going to be interested in hearing this.


I wish I had a grandiose explanation but I think this was the first time I had a 'kikori esque' gut feeling and went with it. There was a point in time where I was 100% convinced Top was scum. As time wore on, I became less convinced and you can see this in my posts as I began to consider the alternatives.

Top, as much as I love you, you did not play well. But that's ok. Your quintuple post was the beginning of the turning point because I thought that it looked like actual desperation. As mafia you are always more calm, cool, and collected. Even though it was kind of, sort of, perhaps just a little outside information your 'you're going to feel like a real jerk after this' had me very much doubting my position. Couple this with the whole trade not working out, and no one owning up to it, and frank's complacency in the post after I asked if we were just gonna sit around, I was pretty sure he was mafia.

This was an excellent game, but I really wish things had gone differently.

Frank, WHY did you leave me and Top alive?

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 19th, 2016, 2:24 am 
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Lander wrote:
Frank, WHY did you leave me and Top alive?

You guys are my bros, why would I kill you?

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 19th, 2016, 5:39 pm 
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Frank 4.0.1 wrote:
Lander wrote:
Frank, WHY did you leave me and Top alive?

You guys are my bros, why would I kill you?

So I save you from an embarrassing attack against a fellow pro-town power role and turn around for a victory, but I'm not a bro? I see how it is. :;_;:

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 22nd, 2016, 9:39 pm 
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Landerpurex wrote:
Even though it was kind of, sort of, perhaps just a little outside information your 'you're going to feel like a real jerk after this' had me very much doubting my position.

The reason why appeals to emotion work so well in RV games is because we're all close-knit and we don't play enough games to develop a solid metagame.

For instance, no one will ever believe me if I claim I was framed, but at the same time, most hosts have not included blatant framing mechanics since that game.

Tops is usually a rational and logical player regardless of alignment, which is why the line worked so well to convince you he was town. The drawback is that he won't be able to use that type of appeal so easily (in theory) in future games.

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Bloodypurex wrote:
The Rocky Horror wrote:
Paidea wrote:
And you're not dead yet? Topsummoner

~Paidea

His logic is flawless. Topsummoner

I concur. We must lynch him now for the sake of the metagame, we MUST teach people that they can't go around claiming "anniversary" and expect leniency. Topsummoner.


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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 22nd, 2016, 9:42 pm 
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Paidea wrote:
metagame


This round's on me.

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 29th, 2016, 1:43 am 
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Paidea wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
Even though it was kind of, sort of, perhaps just a little outside information your 'you're going to feel like a real jerk after this' had me very much doubting my position.

The reason why appeals to emotion work so well in RV games is because we're all close-knit and we don't play enough games to develop a solid metagame.

For instance, no one will ever believe me if I claim I was framed, but at the same time, most hosts have not included blatant framing mechanics since that game.

Tops is usually a rational and logical player regardless of alignment, which is why the line worked so well to convince you he was town. The drawback is that he won't be able to use that type of appeal so easily (in theory) in future games.


There is a metagame on RV, a very clear and damning one. It is problematic, and it is the reason why it's so easy for the mafia to win in a game like 'disguised'. No one has any pretense and therefore no one really is willing to scumhunt.

Top's gambit can work and continue to work until he misuses it, unfortunately. Unless we outlaw it. :laugh:

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 Post subject: Re: Secret Santa Mafia: Game Over, Town Wins!
PostPosted: December 30th, 2016, 1:24 pm 
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