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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 3:31 pm 
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Pyro3000 wrote:
Zilla wrote:
For the record, I tried to kill Top the first time when I was blocked. Dangit.


My bad. Jack let me choose what action got blocked.

Just to clarify, all I told him to do was flip a coin (or pick a number or some Fuzzy Bunny I can't remember) without telling him the purpose of it until the following day.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 3:40 pm 
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I really hope you guys enjoyed this game. I know some things could've been better prepared and ironed out, but I was really happy to see how involved some of you were. It was a blast hosting this game (besides the fact that I did it all over an iPhone). I hope the imperfections didn't ruin the fun too much, I will admit that one or two decisions (like the roleblock) were improvised.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 6:44 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 6:49 pm 
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Jack, would you have eventually punted koolman or muffin?

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 7:39 pm 
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Fun game guys, sorry my activity dropped near the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 8:18 pm 
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Market Man6 wrote:
Jack, would you have eventually punted koolman or muffin?


I asked a few people to serve as replacements, including some players who died early in the game. But given how Fuzzy Bunny things were looking for the villagers, I decided I would only replace, not modkill.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 26th, 2016, 9:10 pm 
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Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 1:56 pm 
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Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)


I have to politely disagree. Any time a villager is running amok and purposefully sewing chaos and playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on. Otherwise the mafia would let him live to continue on acting a fool and doing their job for them.

This was an extenuating circumstance where Pyro was also the detective. Why he chose to claim and bring Zilla with him I will never understand. The meta game calls for his lynch as does the long term well being of the town.

Other than that, this game was.....interesting. Shame I got muted then killed. This game left a bad taste in my mouth. Go sign up for 2of4!

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 2:26 pm 
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By the way, I really enjoyed the flavor text/story this game, Jack.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 3:55 pm 
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Spirographed wrote:
By the way, I really enjoyed the flavor text/story this game, Jack.



Thanks, I had fun writing it. :^_^:

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 4:01 pm 
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Jackstick wrote:
Spirographed wrote:
By the way, I really enjoyed the flavor text/story this game, Jack.



Thanks, I had fun writing it. :^_^:


Yeah thanks for hosting, Jack. I enjoyed the story too, it's good that you've helped spark a mini revival of the mafia games here as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 4:07 pm 
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Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)


"I'm a detective (which on this forum has always been told a person's alignment, not their role) who is going to come out Day Two (which is a terrible time to come out and say anything about being a Detective barring a 100% assured Mafia read) and oust the Jack of All Trades (a villager special role who can not self-protect once they're ousted) while asking the JoaT to protect herself (impossible) or me (which was irrational since it was his suggestion that the JoaT's one use was responsible for Sparky's protect) while in the same day naming numerous people as suspected villagers on Day Two (a near-impossible day to actually peg a Mafia or Villager by from behavior alone) as if my role and alignment is already confirmed (which is impossible to know until dead)."

Nothing about this a trustworthy situation. I honestly spent the entirety of the day phase after placing my vote and the night phase beyond that wondering exactly what combination of circumstances could potentially lead to Pyro being a Mafia who was able to false-claim Detective successfully. Role stealing mechanics, for example. Not a thing about it made sense if it were actually the case... it just somehow was the case.

Glad I could at least make one successful protect.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 6:58 pm 
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Landerpurex wrote:
Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)


I have to politely disagree. Any time a villager is running amok and purposefully sewing chaos and playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on. Otherwise the mafia would let him live to continue on acting a fool and doing their job for them.

This was an extenuating circumstance where Pyro was also the detective. Why he chose to claim and bring Zilla with him I will never understand. The meta game calls for his lynch as does the long term well being of the town.

Other than that, this game was.....interesting. Shame I got muted then killed. This game left a bad taste in my mouth. Go sign up for 2of4!


As a note, the first thing I did was say that I had found a JOAT and that I had no interest in saying who they were. I then proceeded to say what my suspicions were based on what people were saying or voting, and that I would be investigating those people to reach final determinations. I only said Zilla by name because it was my best bet of stopping my lynch and that if I did die, the doctor would surely keep her alive knowing that I was telling the truth. My survival would have only helped the village since I could still have investigated.

Not to mention, if you all lynched Top with me it would have become extremely apparent that I wasn't mafia at that point.

Kikori wrote:
Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)


"I'm a detective (which on this forum has always been told a person's alignment, not their role) who is going to come out Day Two (which is a terrible time to come out and say anything about being a Detective barring a 100% assured Mafia read) and oust the Jack of All Trades (a villager special role who can not self-protect once they're ousted) while asking the JoaT to protect herself (impossible) or me (which was irrational since it was his suggestion that the JoaT's one use was responsible for Sparky's protect) while in the same day naming numerous people as suspected villagers on Day Two (a near-impossible day to actually peg a Mafia or Villager by from behavior alone) as if my role and alignment is already confirmed (which is impossible to know until dead)."

Nothing about this a trustworthy situation. I honestly spent the entirety of the day phase after placing my vote and the night phase beyond that wondering exactly what combination of circumstances could potentially lead to Pyro being a Mafia who was able to false-claim Detective successfully. Role stealing mechanics, for example. Not a thing about it made sense if it were actually the case... it just somehow was the case.

Glad I could at least make one successful protect.


Pretty sure I asked the doctor (you) to protect Zilla and for Zilla to protect me. As noted, I did this having forgotten that her role was a one time use action deal. I also never stated that JoaT was the one that protected Sparky. I said that we likely had both a doctor and a JOAT. Your role was confirmed in the game the moment Jack said Sparky was saved medically. The only other thing I said in regards to sparky being protected was that it was unlikely that Top would have said to protect the same person that voted for him, and that since he was neither the JOAT, Doctor, or Detective that he was a safe lynch because at worst we would have lost a villager and at best we would have killed a mafia.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 7:44 pm 
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There was no way, in my mind, that Pyro could have been mafia. The only reason it got to the point of him outing Zilla (as terrible an idea as that was), was because he was reacting to the votes placed on him, the detective. I understand why he did it, although i don't agree with it (take one for the team next time). The frustrating part for me was that nothing came from the Detective and JOAT deaths. Nobody but Sparky seemed to get it. And Muffin? I won't be playing a game with you ever again.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 27th, 2016, 9:26 pm 
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Hey guys, if you're interested to see the BEHIND THE SCENES messaging of the mafia members, you can join this Discord channel we used and read it by following this link:

https://discord.gg/2wq8nWM

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 28th, 2016, 12:06 am 
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Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I still feel very strongly about this.
Landerpurex wrote:
Any time a villager is ... playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on.
Well-intentioned players that suck at Mafia need to die, as close to the beginning of the game as possible...?

Maybe you could, I dunno, get better at telling when someone doesn't know how to play the game very well, so that they could in turn last long enough to learn how to play better?

Instead of assuming everyone is always automatically an expert at the game?

:(

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine
PostPosted: July 28th, 2016, 12:18 am 
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Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
(Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)
Or Market apparently as I didn't know until just now that he was Mafia too. Nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 28th, 2016, 10:16 am 
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Saten Ruiko wrote:
Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I still feel very strongly about this.
Landerpurex wrote:
Any time a villager is ... playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on.
Well-intentioned players that suck at Mafia need to die, as close to the beginning of the game as possible...?

Maybe you could, I dunno, get better at telling when someone doesn't know how to play the game very well, so that they could in turn last long enough to learn how to play better?

Instead of assuming everyone is always automatically an expert at the game?

:(


We've been over this before.

Also, if A+B=C does not mean that A=C. There's a big, BIG difference between someone who's new 'playing badly' and the dumpster fire that was Pyro's claim and the subsequent falling out. See my interaction with Sparky this game, where I DID tell him directly that he had a responsibility to use his vote wisely as a confirmed townie.

And I don't expect anyone to be experts at the game, especially not right away, but I do expect them to use common sense and play with the best interest of their faction in mind.Sparky did that for the most part. Pyro, in my opinion, did not do that.

Everything I've needed to say has been said in my previous post. ANY TIME a villager becomes a legitimate danger to the town due to their bad play, they should be lynched. The lynch serves two purposes, one, to cut bait with that person but moreover to gather information during and after the train in terms of discussion and voting patterns. Normally we do this when someone is clearly disinterested, upset at the state of the game, has given up and/or ragequit. But it also applies when someone's plan has backfired or they do something like make an unsolicited claim and the town becomes fixated on them (kaitlee comes to mind as an example for more than one of these). Sometimes it's just better to lynch that person, learn their identity and conduct damage control, and then analyze the data generated.

I myself have been lynched on this premise before, and I would never hold it against the town for carrying out such a lynch. The case of Sparky being new, perhaps not being correct in his assumptions, and being confirmed is night versus day compared to Pyro this game. Pyro is a smart guy. He has played mafia before. He took a gamble, it did not pay off in the least. What's worse, he outed our JoaT as well, fake ragequit then said 'just kidding'. He was arguing with everyone and fingered at least five people at different intervals as mafia. Even though he was at last partially right in the end. :laugh:

In what world would we NOT lynch someone behaving so erratically, mafia or town? All that comes of him continuing to live is more confusion amongst the town. Half the people didn't believe his claim in the first place. Day 3 would have looked just like day 2, which would have been a Fuzzy Bunny and very little actual information would have been generated and no actual mafia members would have been lynched.

I identified him as a threat regardless of his affiliation. 2 of the 4 mafia members were on his train, which means other town members had the same thought.

Truth be told, I thought long and hard about unvoting him once he said his ragequit was fake, but the fact alone that he would fake ragequit as a townie also means he should be lynched. You can trace my behavior as he first claimed, 3-4 people voted him right away. I did not. It wasn't until later, as the whole thing continued to unravel, that I voted for him.

So, yeah. TL;DR agree to disagree. But don't misunderstand my position on this. Bad (terrible) play =/= new play.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 28th, 2016, 12:09 pm 
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Just as a slight add-on to what Lander said, in practice letting Pyro lived probably would have just led him to investigating me, which would have made things even worse for the town really since I was the Godfather and would appear innocent...

Besides that I totally am with Lander on this one, I probably would have been just as gung-ho on lynching Pyro had I been village.

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 Post subject: Re: Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins
PostPosted: July 28th, 2016, 9:17 pm 
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Wait...

So Pyro also blocked my kill? Am I reading that right? How does that even work if he's the detective?

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